January 01, 2008

Called to be Ready...For What?

There is one particular tradition held close to heart by the modern fundamentalist church that claims to be a blessing to the church, but is in fact a devious curse to those who believe it. This is the heresy of the "pre-tribulation rapture"; it strips the meaning from our faith, exchanging the ever-present spiritual struggle of our faith into a seemingly never-ending "waiting game". This fable teaches that in the last days, immediately before the great seven-year tribulation, all people living on Earth who genuinely follow Christ will be taken out of the earth, to make way for God to utterly annihilate the planet. Once this massive and miraculous exodus of the faithful takes place, the Antichrist will then rise up to power, and by the power of the devil, he will deceive people into believing that he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.

Of course, according to this rapture theory, it would make sense that the people "left behind" wouldn't know the difference between a wicked war-mongering emperor and Jesus Christ. But why everyone in the world would want to follow any Jesus after the rapture, while suffering the judgment of God, and without piecing together the connection between a sudden disappearance of millions of people and the rise of the best deceiver the world would ever know...well that is another question entirely.

According to the fundamentalist fable of the end-times, the Antichrist will get shot or wounded in his head, but survive. He will have an incredible hypnotic effect on the people, submitting their free will under his influence. He will have 666 written across his forehead. While the scripture says that he will do terrible, hateful, despicable things; fundamentalists believe that people will love him, and that he will have a wonderfully wise way with words. He will also have a sort of side-kick called the "false prophet" that does his dirty work for him, performs all sorts of signs and lying wonders, while he constantly directs the worship of the world to "the beast" (or Antichrist), and not himself (the false prophet). Considering that pride was the sin of Satan, and directing worship from yourself to another is a universal sign of humility, (best represented by John the Baptist, who -when speaking of Jesus- said, "I must decrease, and he must increase") this story doesn't seem to add up. Could it be that the devil has also misdirected our understanding of the Beast, in this most crucial point of history?

The devil takes where the Lord gives. The devil lies where the Lord tells the truth. The devil boasts before all while the Lord speaks to whom he choses in a "still small voice". If Jesus taught that "You can tell a tree by it's fruit, for a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, and a good tree cannot produce bad fruit", and "Out of the mouth comes the abundance of the heart", he probably meant something by it. The devil's appearance at a glance may seem harmless, or even attractive, but his poisonous nature is quickly revealed beneath the disguise of "an angel of light". The devil is no more than a very good illusionist. And his Antichrist is nothing more than a wolf disguised as a sheep.

It is foolishness to suggest that the Antichrist will be wise. For the Bible is very emphatically clear that wisdom comes from God, and while Lucifer was "perfect in wisdom" before his fall, from the point that sin entered him, all light and wisdom that he possessed was transformed to true darkness and mere craftiness.

Satan is the ultimate con-artist; he is the master of loop-holes, foolish enough to think that he is really staying one step ahead of God, or his children. Satan knows that his time is short here on Earth, and that God has promised him judgment, but he is racing against time, furiously poisoning the well of truth with his fables and fantasies. The devil's plan is to cause all believers to fall short of the mark of God, thereby keeping God away from the Earth. His biggest threat on earth is the Bride of Christ, and so the object of his greatest campaign of deception would be the church. If the devil manages to successfully deceive the church into supporting his chosen vessel of death and destruction (The Antichrist), then God would be forced to either delay his return, or to destroy his beloved because God is just, and the fallen church would have become wicked.

How could such a campaign of deception be carried out? By planting the seed of a lie years before its fruit would be needed, then repeating that lie over and over again to give it nourishment and a sense of authenticity. The seed of "pre-trib" teaching originated in 1825, and it has grown to be one of the most divisive issues of the modern church. The best way to get a good person (or people) to do or believe something that is false, is to tell them that it is in their best interest. This was the devil's tactic when tempting Eve, it is the poisonous reasoning that has fueled this wicked War on Terrorism, and it is the heart of the "Pre-tribulation rapture" theory.

Time and time again, by the word of Christ, and throughout the letters of the New Testament, there are warnings to be ready for the return of Christ. There are numerous warnings that Christ will return "as a thief in the night". These warnings are issued to believers, both asleep and awake. Those who are awake and vigilant will see the signs of his coming, and they will be prepared for his arrival. The master will receive these servants with joy, and he will express this joy by pampering his servants (which is a concept that would make any good servant blush). Other servants will be asleep, and unprepared for his return. These servants will be rebuked, but forgiven. Still others will be wicked: they will drink the Master's liquor, beat their fellow servants, put their feet up on his furniture, and believe in their heart that the Master won't be returning in their lifetime, so they might as well live it up. These servants will be punished severely.

So the question is, when will Christ return, and what will be his motivation for coming "as a thief in the night"? According to the Pre-trib rapture version, Christ will return before any signs of judgment manifest themselves, and before the Antichrist rises to power. His motivation, then, would be to catch Christians with their hands in the proverbial cookie jar. This version of Jesus is looking for the perfect time to bust into Earth and yell "Gotcha!", laughing at the unprepared humans who have chosen to serve and follow him. Once he has scooped up his good, caring, and loving followers from the Earth, this Jesus will go back to heaven, seal the door shut behind him, and stay the heck out of the way as God pours fire and plagues on the Earth (while the Antichrist woos the people left with his wisdom, seducing their love for seven years). There will be 144,000 Jews who will see the light of God in this period, according to the rapture, but they alone will escape. The vast majority of people, Jew and Gentile alike, will be utterly consumed by the furious wrath of God, and only the saints will be safe in heaven to watch the world burn. This would be better than any block-buster action flick EVER...and it doesn't matter that any true saint would not be captivated by the spectacle, but would be sick to their stomach and in pain at the mostly meaningless suffering on Earth that is promised by this theory. To preserve the integrity of the pre-trib rapture theory, we shouldn't take note that the 12 tribes of Revelation 7 include Joseph, and exclude Dan and Ephraim (which would mean that they are not of the literal "tribes" of Israel, but a spiritual type). We should also disregard all prophetic references to the The Master returning to his house, or coming in to his wedding. Because according to the Pre-trib view, The Master will return to his house, make note of the faithful and watchful servants, take them out of the house, and then immediately set fire to his own house and watch it burn to the ground, with sleeping and wicked servants left to die in the inferno. This is not the Gospel, and not the real Jesus Christ.

If the Pre-trib view of the end times isn't true, then what are we supposed to "be ready" for?

I wonder. Could it be that the Devil is already well-advanced in his plans to deceive the Church; that he has duped the people into thinking that they don't need to put on the Armor of God, that they don't need to worry about stepping into battle? Might Jesus have been warning all those who call him "Lord Lord" that saying the right words won't be enough to save them? Could it be that our actions define our spiritual state? Is it possible that the Antichrist not only walks among us, but was strongly endorsed by the mainstream church, and has lit the fuse that will ignite the powder-keg of the 3rd World War? Have many Christians since 1825 have been lulled into a spiritual sleep because they are waiting for a pre-tribulation rapture that will never happen? Is the devil's power to deceive that extensive, that it would fool so may people, but never God?

If the "pre-trib rapture" is a lie, could God have offered us any help or assistance in waking up from a deception so massive as this? Can the events that have happened in recent years have any deep prophetic significance? Is the death of tens of thousands of people in east Asia just in this month so far a sign of the day we are now living in, or is it meaningless; without merit; certainly not a sign from God? Does God want us to be caught with our hands in the cookie jar, or does he want all to come to repentance? I wonder...

C.S. Lewis, one of the greatest Christians of the 20th Century, wrote this in Mere Christianity:

We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. We have all seen this when doing arithmetic. When I have started a sum the wrong way, the sooner I admit this and go back and start over again, the faster I shall get on. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake.


I haven't left references to scriptures in this post, because scriptures have been used on both sides of the argument. I hope, however, that this shows the spiritual fruit of the "pre-trib" doctrine. And I can assure you, that if you believe in the rapture now, and this causes even the most remote doubt to enter your mind in it's authenticity, and you begin to study the scriptures to confirm if it is a lie, you will be amazed by how many scriptures all throughout the Bible clarify the matter.

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

Really enjoyed this post.

C.S. Lewis quote:
There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake.

Admitting we don't have all the answers and we might actually be wrong is something so many won't admit. Bush refusing to admit we made a mistake going into Iraq is one area. He just keeps justifying the war. Too much pride.

Sharon :)

D. A. N. said...

And I can assure you, that if you believe in the rapture now, and this causes even the most remote doubt to enter your mind in it's authenticity, and you begin to study the scriptures to confirm if it is a lie, you will be amazed by how many scriptures all throughout the Bible clarify the matter.

Don't stop now lets hear it. Point me in the perceived right direction. You need to help me understand your points.

Its time to state your case. Can you "Scripturally" tell me there is no rapture. Tell me how all of us is mislead. I read it plainly and I read the Rapture.

On a side note to get to know you better. I need something clarified to see if we are even in the same ball park. Do you believe in creation being created in 6 days? Are you a YEC?

Here I will state my case Scripturally.

Matthew 24:35-44 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

John 14:2 "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 " Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “ O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

Remember the Bible says in Rev 21:8 All liars shall have their place in the lake of fire that burns forever.

So if you don't believe God will do it the way He said He did, remember on any subject, there can be only one truth. And the other is a untruth. You have to make your decision on what your gonna believe. And if it goes against God's word, you'd better be right. For if your not, do you think God is gonna tolerate what you have called Him by making this decision? For their can only be one liar who can be sentenced to Hell.

1. To be able to say someone is lying about the Rapture, you'd first have to know all there is to know on the subject. There's only one person that knows, the Creator Himself. And what He did is written in His word.

2. God spoke things into existence. To be able to say that someone lies about how this is done, again you would have to know how it's done and the limitations, if any.

3.The only reference there is to rapture, is God's word. So if what is said does not go along with His Word then it can only be a possibility and not a fact.

Look I fully understand that truth alway is confrontational, there is always someone on the wrong side of truth. This is a very serious and real subject for you and I am sorry for that. If I didn't love you enough to tell you the truth, then I wouldn't. Talk to me in an open forum or private either way is fine.

I will copy this on my blog since you addressed it there also.

young brother said...

First, let's establish that there is a difference between "Rapture" and "pre-tribulation rapture" (henceforth referred to as PTR).

Second "all of us" who believe in PTR is not all of Christendom.

I will address the scriptures you provided point by point:

Matt 24:35-44, Those who were "Taken" were not Noah and his family, but rather the rest of the world...the Nephilim and all the wicked. The wicked will be taken out of the earth, and the meek, like Noah and his family, will be left to inherit the earth. This is strong meat, but it's confirmed throughout the Psalms, the prophets, and the parables of Jesus. For instance, Matt 13, when Jesus is explaining his parable of the Wheat and the Tares, he says in Matt 13:40-41 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;"

This 'gathering out' happens first. I'm not deceiving you; you are perceiving my intentions with a dark lense. I'm not your enemy. And I don't have the power to make the words of Jesus change to conform to my beliefs. I was raised to believe in PTR, but God has revealed the truth of this matter to me. I have changed my beliefs to conform to God's teachings...and it's a wonderful thing to be able to do.


John 14:3-4 has nothing to do with the rapture. I don't know why you used that as evidence. If you are referring to my point about the "Master of the House" in this post, let me explain:

In some cases, in scripture, Beelzebul is referred to as the "master of the house", in one case, the individual is referred to as the "master of the house", but in many parables, GOD is the "master of the house", who leaves for a journey, then returns...and at the time when he returns (not seven years after) the wicked are "cast into the outer darkness".
Matt 24:45-51

Matt 25:14-30

1:Cor 15:50-58

Notice how it says "last trump", which is scripturally at the tail end of the Great Tribulation. I believe there will be a transfiguration of the Body of Christ, at God's appointed time. Where the spirits of the body of Christ will raise up in light, even as the head descends to join us. This is the marriage of Christ.

I will share in my next comment a quote from my mentor which explains with greater authority than I have what 1 Thes 4:13-18 means.
---------------------------------

Now, let me address your points:

1&2. To be able to know the truth about the Rapture, I would simply need to have God reveal that truth to me. Do you believe God wants us to be left guessing? Do you think he enjoys the strife that exists between those who claim to love him? Is this how you view God?

3. God's word is the final authority of this and every matter. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I have no doubt about what is evil, what is darkness, what is foolishness. I still have sin within me, but in this matter, I'm telling you the God verified truth.

You continue to push and attack me.
Your PTR doctrine contradicts the words of Christ in Matt 13 clearly, directly... yet you don't consider that "evidence". I have presented that case-destroying "evidence" to you earlier, but rather than take heed, you keep pushing forward, defending your own doctrinal stance.

Dan, your spirit is burning with fire, not out of zeal for the truth, but by the very spirit that is behind this heresy called the "pre-tribulation rapture". I wish you could see how fierce you are being. I will not engage in the debate beyond what I have said above. You need to search deeper, pray, and ponder on this doctrine you hold so tightly. Listen. Don't let yourself just react. If you ask for guidance, be prepared to receive it.

young brother said...

This is from PeterZ's post concerning the Rapture.

1 Thess 4:17: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them that are in the clouds,”

Notice it doesn’t say we are going into the clouds it is talking about those that are in the clouds. If you search the scriptures, you will see that the clouds are significant of the abode of the dead, the dwelling place of the spirits of the dead and the Angels, the realm of the spirit.
Mt:17:5
Mt:24:30
Mt:26:64
Mk:13:26

In Acts:1:9: “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud RECEIVED him out of their sight.” It didn’t say he faded off in the distance till he was in the clouds.

1Cor:10:2: “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; ” -We are to be baptized in water and the spirit.

Heb: 2:1: “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses.” -Those are the saints and the angels.

Again in one place it says Rv:1:7 “behold he cometh with CLOUDS” then in Jude:1:14:” Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,”. Which is it, with saints, or with clouds? Or are they the same? Remember we interpret the bible by the bible. Now let’s look at the words “caught up” . That refers to the time when we shall be changed, This mortal putting on immortality.

1Cor:15:52: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” So now we know that it is the LAST trump. This is the same event. The next part in 1stThess. says “to meet the Lord in the air:” The word “Air “ here is the same word used when Paul said in Eph:2:2: “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the AIR, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:”

2Cor:4:4:” In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” -Air means here the lower atmosphere, this material dimension, or the Outer Court, where Satan rules. “and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” We are not going up and coming back because His kingdom will be here.

Rv:11:15 “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Hallelujah!!

Anonymous said...

We will weather the storm by His grace, just as Noah weathered the storm by His grace. This time will be no different.

Jesus prayed to the Father not that we should be taken out of the world, but that we be delivered from evil.

I believe it is a fear factor that people want so desperately to cling to the false doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture. Where is their faith? Jesus protected the Church of the Philadelphians during the Christian persecution of 70 AD, and why should we be any different than previous generations?

Rv:11:15 “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Hallelujah!!

Amen. Keep spreading the truth according to God's Holy Word.

Blessings.
faithful forever

D. A. N. said...

Kevin,

First, let's establish that there is a difference between "Rapture" and "pre-tribulation rapture" (henceforth referred to as PTR).

OK lets define from the dictionary--Rapture:

"From the Latin "rapio" which means to snatch. The belief held by many conservative Christians that Christ will soon appear in the sky and that all of saved individuals, both living and dead, will rise to meet him. ..."

"The belief that the faithful will be rescued and taken to heaven before Jesus returns in judgment and the world comes to an end."

"The act of transferring a person from one place to another"

"The instantaneous transfer of a spirit from a living human body into an angelic body without going through the first death."

"To be "caught up." This refers to the time when believing Christians (both dead and alive) will "in the twinkling of an eye" rise up to meet Christ in the air."

These are the dictionary definitions so what exactly is rapture to you? Let me take a shot at what possibly you believe:

So you believe there is a rapture but not before the tribulation (A period, generally thought to be seven years, in which the Antichrist comes to power, and the world is destroyed by war, disease, rampant crime ...), correct?

As you understand it, you believe in Christ coming but not the chosen being saved before that time, that we will endure the third of the earth perishing (Re 9:18 ) and when people are hiding in their caves (Re 6:16) we are not to be afraid. That Bush will be the one to achieve the building of the Temple (A prerequisite of Christ's return) and that the end times for evil is at hand right now, correct?

For the moment I will concede to your argument and give some benefit of doubt. I thought for some reason you didn't believe that Christ will come to end evil as in the Rapture (by definition). This new version of understanding as to what rapture is, is very new to me. I will not say I agree quite yet but at least I believe I understand your point of view. I have a long road of study ahead of me.There are so many people believe that this world will not end and some believe that it will. No one knows for sure, one thing for sure is we shouldn't stop believing in Christ.

Remember that Christ had the same physical body that he left with it was just perfected but the scars were left. (John 20:27) So, as you believe it, we are to rise with the dead to receive our new heavenly body when Christ comes but it will be after the great tribulation? I believe I now understand somewhat your point of view and it was quite different then I thought you meant.

Like we discussed, If you are right Bush will enact marshal law and/or will attack Iran at some point this year to stay in power. If that happens I will see the fruit of your viewpoint and will have no choice but to agree with your position and we will see Christ very soon. If it doesn't happen then that will allow both of us to study further the Bible to understand it more. Either way we are in for a wonderful time here on earth. We can get all caught up in the semantics of the Bible but we both know one thing that is absolute and that is the devil will lose his grasp on the human race and Christ will reign!

It appeared that you were getting defensive "Dan, your spirit is burning with fire, not out of zeal for the truth, ... I wish you could see how fierce you are being." but that isn't the case. IF you were to say that Jesus was a woman I would want proof of your hypothesis. I would pursue you until you satisfactorily convinced me I was wrong that Jesus was a man. I hold no ill will towards you at all, I only wanted you to explain your point of view like I was doing. In my viewpoint it was debating not arguing. Someone in a movie i believe once said something to the effect of you believe we are arguing and I believe we are finally communicating.

It’s the truth that sets us free (John 8:32), not error, and Christ is “the truth” (John 14:6)!

Peace my friend,
Dan

young brother said...

Dan, you have taken a step in the right direction. I'm glad to see that.

As Christians we are supposed to be on our guard against deception, but at the same time we are to remain self-controlled. I have (so far) given you no reason to believe that I am a liar, though I have been challenging your beliefs. But you quoted Rev 21:8 in reference to me.

I am not lying, and I never accused you of lying. I do feel that this doctrine you followed has deceived you, however. And from that point, I hope to be of service to you. Believe it or not, it has been hard work responding to your disagreement. And your replies were very disheartening. But, thankfully there seems to be a break in that pattern.

Please, don't just sit back and wait to see if I'm right about Bush. And don't just blindly follow what I'm saying either.

I don't have the energy to guide anyone step by step in their walk with God, and you shouldn't ask that of me. But I do encourage you to take the initiative now. Study the scriptures and pray like you never have before. We're in the midst of a great spiritual battle, and time is ticking. Seek out the deeper truth yourself. Pray to God for this specifically: To be given "Eyes to see and ears to hear".

I'm not calling you blind or deaf by requesting this of you. Indeed, you have shown yourself to be very well-versed in doctrine and scripture...but one of the great things about the Christian faith is that there is always room to grow.
If we think we have arrived at the fullness of understanding, we have been led astray...but as we grow in light it becomes much easier to recognize counterfeits (of which George Bush is the most powerful). Along the way, we do learn elements and aspects of truth that cannot be shaken by dispute. There's no reason for any of us to just "wait and see".

Remember, the five unfaithful virgins decided to "wait and see" if the bridegroom would come after dark (never really believing he would be delayed that long). They had their lamps, but they were mere outward symbols of a readiness they thought they wouldn't need. Lamps filled with oil are proper tools, ready to be used. Lamps unfilled are nothing more than paperweights.

In our faith it is always better to be over-prepared than under-prepared. We are warned about that time after time after time...for good reason.

God has led you here for a reason.
Draw close to him, in prayer and study, and commit yourself to determining once and for all whether I really am lying about all of this, or whether I've been telling you the truth.

young brother said...

Dan,

For the record, I don't even know what an "FEC" is (please explain!).

I'm also quite shocked to hear that you weren't familiar with the three separate rapture theories. I didn't explain it earlier because I assumed you knew. And I thank you for defending the return of Christ. I am certainly counting on that!

There are three different theories of "the rapture". The first is pre-tribulation, which is the most wide-spread, while also being the least scripturally supportable interpretation. This is the "feel good" version, very self-serving, very stoutly defended by it's supporters. This is the theory that came to being in 1830 through Margarette MacDonald.

This theory is a very great heresy, because it comforts Christians falsely into the belief that they don't need to look for the Antichrist, because they won't be around when he arrives. It also makes the servants of Christ greater than their masters, because they will not have to suffer or die. I don't believe I will necessarily die before the return of Christ (I might), but I can definitely tell you that this path of following Christ is a path of suffering. (But when I'm not in the middle of it, I do rejoice for the suffering, as it brings me closer to Christ).

The second interpretation is "Mid-tribulation", and this is the belief that some Christians will be around to battle the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years, and then be taken up before the worst of God's judgment hits the earth.

Post-trib rapturistsbelieve that the return of Christ, judgment, and the transfiguration of the living body of Christ will happen more or less simultaneously. This is the interpretation I come closest to believing. Please read through this great website that explains in more detail how these different theories stand up to scripture.

I probably won't be posting in the next week. My little sister is graduating from High-school, and I'm going down to visit my family. I hope you go forth moment by moment, ever deeper into the revelation that God would share with you.

young brother said...

Forever Faithful, you are a sustaining spirit; a tremendous blessing. I am in your debt.

Sharon, you are also a great blessing. I'm so glad that you found this post to be helpful, or eye-opening. The last shall be first, and the first shall be last.

God's love for his children is so tremendous. We should feel a hint of that love spilling over within us, for one another. I am very, very grateful for your encouragement.

Anonymous said...

Kevin,

Your kind words and acceptance touch my heart; there is more than just a hint of that love spilling over within us for one another.

Love is the only debt we owe each other because He first loved us. There is nothing else required, my brother. It is a wonderous beautiful thing this thing called love. And I love you my brother.

I hope your visit with your family holds many blessings and hurry back; you will be missed.

Your sister in Christ, Sue
faithful forever

D. A. N. said...

Kevin,

To clarify things a little your blog words were: By planting the seed of a lie years before its fruit would be needed, then repeating that lie over and over again to give it nourishment and a sense of authenticity. The seed of "pre-trib" teaching originated in 1825,

So I commented: "Remember the Bible says in Rev 21:8 All liars shall have their place in the lake of fire that burns forever."

I added point one "1. To be able to say someone is lying about the Rapture, you'd first have to know all there is to know on the subject. There's only one person that knows, the Creator Himself. And what He did is written in His word."

Thanks for the link on the Rapture and frankly I had no idea there were so many versions. The confusion, on my part, started when you didn't believe in a rapture. At the time I only heard or knew of only one so I was quite taken back when you discounted it completely. I thought there may have been the smell of bad fruit but that has since waned.

"And don't just blindly follow what I'm saying either."

This is something, maybe by now you can tell, that I don't do. I challenge every man of the views they hold against the Word to test the fruit. Like I said there is always someone that loses on the other side of truth but I have said many times to others that it takes far more love to confront then to ignore the situation, perfect love is a constant confronter.

My little sister is graduating from High-school,

That is quite disturbing and my heart goes out to her. Hopefully it wasn't a public school system. That she has been possibly indoctrinated/bombarded with a secular humanist worldview for that entire time. Public School system, I am sure you understand, is indoctrinating children into a belief of no God.

Listen to what an American Humanist named John Dunphy said by correctly prophesying about children back in 1983:

"I am convinced that the battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level--preschool day care or large state university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new--the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with all its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism."

Keep that little sister of yours in the Word and help her understand that God is being pushed out of her life by the daemons of the public school system.

For the record I homeschool our children (going on 4) and they are very bright and understand God. We owe it to God to bring up Godly children. These children, after all, are on loan to us. God gives us a great honor to help Him raise His children.

"For the record, I don't even know what an "FEC" is"

LOL that is Y.E.C. as in a belief in young earth creation or 6 literal days. I was trying to get your viewpoints to get a better understanding of your beliefs.

I am fascinated and very excited by the notion of Bush being the Antichrist and would be overjoyed to witness and be part of the coming of Christ.

I look forward to meeting you someday soon.

Dan